The People Under the Trees

109 The People Under the Trees

Amy: Hello. Welcome and thanks for joining us today. Today we are going to be discussing “Evil Underground”, which is on Max anyway, season two, episode 16 and on the travel channel, where is where Amy watches it is, is what?

AP: yeah, so I watch on Xfinity On Demand. It is Season 2, Episode 14.

Amy: OK. And then it's something totally different on IMDb.

AP: Yep.

Amy: So, uh, yeah, what'd you say? It was like Season 3, Episode 22 or something?

AP: Yes. Yep.

Amy: Okay.

AP: It doesn't make any sense.

Amy: No, it makes no sense. And we think we know why it's happening, but It really doesn't matter.

So when you're looking, if you want to watch the episode we're going to watch, or we're going to talk about, just look for the one called “Evil Underground” and it takes place in Rock Island, Illinois. So that should help you. This one was a suggestion from listener Lily of the Haunted Happy Hour podcast.

And she asked for this quite a while ago before, uh, AP even joined. And it deals real heavily with, um, child death. And not just in history like we've done before, but the client has a child who passed. And so we just really didn't want to, uh, make Megan deal with that.

Since Megan can't join us today, she is busy with her family doing stuff, and it's just Amy and I, and we only have fur children, not human ones, so.. figured we would just, we would just do this one.

And Haunted Happy Hour, I want to say go check them out, um, if you like boos and boos, as in glug glug and scary, um, they are …

[00:01:53] AP: If you can't see Amy’s motions everyone, it’s like jazz hands for drinking a beer or a 40 or something and jazz hands for, for ghostly things.

[00:02:08] Amy: It's always jazz hands either way, but it's a really good podcast.

They make cocktails, they talk about cocktails and they talk about ghosty stuff and they're really cool. Sisters, right? Yes.

[00:02:18] AP: Yeah. Vanessa and Lily

[00:02:19] Amy:. Yes. Yes. And lovely.

Okay. So other than the child death, which is, you know, bad enough, um, what else are we warning people about today?

[00:02:31] AP: Really there wasn't a lot. But just as that, that warning is child death at birth. So it, that's really the only one that we can think of that isn't out of the normal history realms. But just so that this one It, it does deal with kind of that acceptance, grief, moving on or the struggle to accept and move on, uh, all which are understandable, but it could be triggering for some who may have found themselves in a similar position.

[00:03:00] Amy: On to housekeeping. We do want to welcome more new listeners. We have been getting quite a few lately and

AP: Hey, hey, hey.

Amy: Hey, hey, everyone. Welcome. We hope you like it. One of the things that I did this week, or I guess I should say last week, cause it's Monday, is, uh, we talked about, I think it was episode 106.

We talked about, creating bingo cards for all of the tropes and cliches and reused script portions that have been happening.

[00:03:32] AP: There's definitely at least one in this one today.

[00:03:34] Amy: Yep. There, I picked out a couple. Well, I, I maybe added some things cause I was doing the, the bingo card while I was watching this episode.

So I pulled a couple from that. So we'll, we'll get to that. But anyway, the bingo cards are up. They are, uh, I've, I've already released it to Patrons. But by the time this comes out, it will be released everywhere. Basically what I did is I took Megan, AP and I all came up with things that we think should be in there.

And then I just, I found a bingo card generator online and I stuck them all in there and it made 30 cards all shuffled around. So you can actually play and they're not all the same cards. They're all different. Check them off as you're watching The Dead Files. And I think that's it. Amy, do you have anything?

AP: No, I don't think I have anything additional to add to that.

Amy: Okay. All right, well, let's get her done. Yeah. All right. So I will do the quick little overview. I keep having to.

AP: I did wear my, one of my Scotland sweaters today and they're not sweaters from Scotland, but they're my sweaters that I bought to go to Scotland.

Right. But I call them that. And, uh, because, uh, It's, uh, March 25th and we had our biggest snowfall of the year.

Amy: We did. Oh dear. And it's raining now. I mean, we're still under a weather advisory. Yeah.

AP: Heavy snow. Oh my god. I shoveled it yesterday and, you know, there was only a couple inches in the driveway, but it was Like, and I mean like two inches in the driveway, but it was so soaking wet.

If you've ever had a snow cone and you know how the bottom of the snow cone or the shaved ice bowl gets super soggy and super wet and a little bit of ice crunch. That's what that is. The snow was that came in, it was so heavy and wet and it, this is what they call heart attack snow for people who don't take breaks shoveling it.

Amy: Yep I tried to shovel a little bit today. I, I did shovel yesterday, the, the back patio and it wasn't that bad. I just,

AP: Did you lose Vivi out there?

Amy: I have before not this storm, but I have before she'll jump in and then I'm like, where'd she go? I don't know. Cause it's deeper than she is tall, but I do the lazy thing where I just like hold the, the shovel up against my stomach and walk and push.

So I did that and that wasn't too bad, but today I went out and tried to get the rest of it after it had snowed another, I don't know, a couple, three inches maybe. And then rain on top of that, I got like two heave hoes and I was like, Nope, I'm stopping. I'll let Greg handle that with the snowblower.

AP: Yeah, in the areas where it was colder, so our driveway was fairly warm because it's a blacktop driveway, so most of that snow melted. But in the backyard, where we have a few things that stacked up, we probably had in the accumulation of snow. 8, 10, 12 inches. Truthfully, I think a lot of people were like, yeah, just like Minnesota to get all worked up over a snowstorm and we don't get that much.

But I think people didn't realize how much actually fell and how much melted before it actually stayed.

Amy: Right. Cause I looked like it's not that much on the ground, but of course we've shoveled a little too, but a lot of it has melted, like you said, but like on our, our picnic table, it's just solid on the picnic table.

And it's at least I don't know, 8, 10 inches on the picnic table and some of that has melted too, so.

AP: yeah I had to go, I had to go and so in, at least around here, you, if you have a drain i n front of your house, you are supposed to keep that clear. While our neighbors down the street who do not, who do have the drain, never keep it clear.

And so I had to go down there and like shovel all of the debris off that into the little bit of the boulevard so that the water could flow. Cause otherwise it backs up and we get like a lake in front of our driveway. Cause we're just, just at a little bit of a slope, but if it backs up, it'll back up between our house and across the street.

Amy: Yeah. Yeah. And that's bad also for the pipes. If it gets the sewer, if it gets backed up in there, that can end up backing up into your homes and stuff. So yeah, people got to keep that stuff clean..

AP: I know

Amy: That was nice of you to do that.

AP: Got us derailed slightly.

Amy: You know what? It wouldn't be the first time.

Okay, so the synopsis on the Travel Channel is, “As Steve uncovers past secrets of a mobster that killed and buried his victims on the client's Illinois property, Amy encounters a powerful cluster of vicious entities with a murderous leader.” I don't know. I don't think that's correct.

AP: Yeah, that feels like someone took a couple of words through it in AI back in 2012 and was like, That works.

Amy: Yeah. Because yeah, I mean, some of that makes sense, but anyway, we'll get there. I will say, before I get started on this part, I was kind of confused about who the ghosts were versus who Steve saw and stuff. So we can talk through that, but I was like, wait a minute, I thought you said

AP: Oh, is that why you, you had to go back and watch it another time?

Amy: Yeah. I watched this like three times

AP:. I was going to ask, but I was like, we'll get into it tomorrow.

Amy: We'll get into it. Yeah. I think I've got it figured out, but I still, I'm like, oh, Goofy. Mm hmm. Anyway.

So this week we're headed to Rock Island, Illinois. The clients are Mellissa and Mike and their two children, Madison and Nathan.

Mellissa is worried about her children, particularly her four-year-old daughter. They've experienced seeing apparitions and shadow figures. The little girl wakes in the middle of the night screaming. Things are moving. They've also felt pushed and pulled while on the stairs. Mellissa had another child, Noah, about five years before this, but he passed away shortly after he was born.

Amy encounters a creepy man in a cloak with part of his face missing. He controls other dead people who are in the trees. They are his underlings. And she also meets an uppity female. Prissy uppity female, I think she called her. She senses that at least two people in the house have abilities and one is pretty advanced.

She also notes that one of them has an unhealthy attachment to the dead, and she describes some PK activity too.

Steve does his Steve thing and speaks to an author, a historian, and a museum curator. He learns of a mobster who owned the land where the house was built, a family who owned it before that, and going back even further, more Native American stories, as well, involving land, of course.

And two Native leaders, Black Hawk and Keokuk. Amy confirms that the man in the cloak is Keokuk. Put a pin in that because that's one of the things I had questions about. She suggests that Mellissa go through grief counseling, which should help get rid of the dead and the poltergeist. She leaves them some exercises for Nathan to do nightly.

And then she suggests they find someone from the Sauk Nation tribe to do a ceremony in the backyard to release the people that Keokuk has been collecting. They promise they will do it all.

Stay tuned to find out if they do.

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Amy: So, yeah, I I watched this three times because as I was like writing up my overview, I'm like, no, wait a minute.

Okay. First of all, I thought the person in the cloak was going to be the mobster. And then they, when they talked about it some more and especially at the reveal, it turned out that it was one of the Native American men and she kept saying it was their leader.

And, and, but the show kept saying that Black Hawk was the leader.

AP: But I think where they, it was is that Keokuk was also a leader. He was a leader to get the people who wanted to leave, not wanted, but got, he convinced them to leave. Black Hawk was a leader of another group to fight basically and stay. And I think where they were connecting to Keokuk was that he felt like he fucked up.

Amy: Yeah.

AP: Because he convinced them to leave and they said they would have the next property for so long. You know, like the next piece of land was going to be theirs forever.

Amy: Yeah.

AP: For 10 years.

Amy: Right. They only got it for 10 years.

AP: So I, that's where I got that connection, but yeah, I was, I was wondering if they cut it awkwardly that just made it feel like, was, was there more that should have been there and not just the

Amy: Yeah.

AP: I don't know.

Amy: Well, I was confused because they called Keokuk the spokesman and they called Black Hawk the leader and Amy kept saying it was their leader, but then I Googled it and they were both leaders of the same tribe.

AP: Yep. Yep.

Amy: And I have a link in the show notes if anybody wants to read the story.

But. Anyway. Okay.

AP: So I have one kind of like when Amy's opening here, you know, I know we always have the little bit of Steve going in his ring shot every time.

Yeah. And he's talking about who he's going to go see. But then when Amy opens, Matt is going through and lots of family photos and the kid's names to remove and her statement, “there's a lot of fricking dead people here. Very, very negative. There's like people under the trees.”

Amy: Yeah. That's, and that freaked me out. I like that name for a title too. People under the trees.

AP: And I, I noticed she was wearing earmuffs the whole time.

Amy: I know. I noticed that too. I'm like, do they not have heat in this house?  Maybe they came in the middle of the night and it was just really, really cold. I mean, it's Michigan could have been, if it was winter.

AP: It's Illinois.

Amy: Oh, you're right. Illinois. Same thing.

AP: I mean, they're states near each other.

Amy: And I know they're not the same thing. I think I'm thinking that it aren't Lily and Vanessa in Michigan.

AP: Iowa.

Amy: Oh, okay. Nevermind. I lose on all accounts.

AP: They're, they're right. They're right down the road.

Amy: Right down the road.

Okay. I thought, I don't know, for some reason I thought they were in Michigan. You know what I think it is? When I started watching this episode, I was actually watching the wrong episode because

AP: You pulled a ME!

Amy:  yeah, well, Dead Files went and cause I had already watched, I, or I had, I had like scrolled through it so that I could get the transcript so I could work off of that. And so I had

AP: it played the next episode,

Amy: it went to the next episode. And I'm like, Watervliet, Michigan. I swear to God, we've already done this one. And then I looked at the numbers and I'm like, oh, God damn it. It's supposed to be a Rock Island. So that's where I'm getting that. Okay. Not, not that that's an excuse.

AP: Glad, glad we discovered where we were at.

Amy: My God. Okay. I even said it not 10 minutes ago, Rock Island, Illinois, but whatever. Okay. So, uh, la, la, la, la. Yeah. He had to remove that. And then oh, so this is where she sees the creepy dude in the cloak missing pretty much his whole face. I'm not sure why Keokuk would have been missing his face.

I mean, I don't know how he died but,

AP: the only thing that. Like later on, Amy talks about how there's the lineup of people and they're in different, they're in various stages of decomposition. It's the only thing I could think of that might connect that, but I don't feel like that was… in that connection, you know, that, that part was never really clarified to us at all.

Amy: Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, I also thought it was interesting as, as Steve is interviewing Mellissa for the first time and she says that her main concern is for her daughter, Madison, who's four because she doesn't want her to be afraid. She wants her to have a normal childhood and everything. And then we find out, that at least two people in this family are mediums, but the boy is the one that is the advanced medium.

AP: Yeah, I thought that was really interesting. And just to clarify for everyone, we've got Mellissa and Mike. Then we have Nathan who is seven. So he was two years old when his brother was born and passed. And then we have Madison who was four, who would be about a year younger than Noah would have been.

Amy: And they moved into the house, she said about five years ago. So it must've been right around the time…

AP: She said she was pregnant with Noah. I actually thought that she was pregnant with Madison when she said they moved in five years ago and that Madison was four. So I got a little confused right off the bat and then we went into it. There was one thing that Mellissa mentioned right away that was completely like glossed over for the rest of the episode, but she saw down in the basement when she was pregnant with Noah, she remembered very vividly seeing a shadow person.

Amy: Yes.

AP: And then it's never talked about.

Amy: No, I know. And I thought that was weird too.

AP: We, we hear some stuff about other beings in the basement, but there was not that, that piece just was never, you know, tied in. So …

Amy: yeah yeah, I thought that was odd because I certainly thought, I wonder if that had anything to do with, but I mean.

She did say that the, they knew partway, halfway, maybe through the pregnancy

AP: that the baby would not survive and that Noah would, would not survive and that it was still very difficult to accept that at, at that point, which I mean, I completely agree with that. Can completely understand that for anyone.

It's, and especially in the time of the world that we're in today. Mm-Hmm. and hearing about some of this stuff too, so,

Amy: yeah. Yeah. It's, that's tough stuff.

AP: Mm-Hmm.

Amy: Mellissa does show Steve a picture of the baby. And, uh, that he says later that it was taken just before he passed. So it's a, it's a sad picture and they show it like five times.

AP: I know.

Amy: I did note that though she said that there are two people here who are mediums, one is extremely developed.

It might be a child. And I wrote, did you have that on your bingo card? Because that is on the bingo cards. Though being

AP: one, being very developed, like Amy was very much like. What is going on here? Something's weird. And she does talk about that a few times throughout, but she does also kind of intermix different things.

She said there is a living person who's very attracted to death. They want it around. This person is held on to family members or friends. My brain went right away to Mellissa. And I put in here, we've heard Amy talk in similar manners with others about something like this.

I don't know if it's so much considered an obsession or an attraction to death as not being able to let go of what they lost. And I put this in there before I got to the end of. The episode but that's definitely something I think I, I can fully understand even if it's not been a child, but it's been other things like all of a sudden you want to go talk to someone and you're like, they're not there anymore.

I can't, I, I can talk to them, but I'm probably not going to hear them.

Amy: That's, yeah. Yeah. And when she said they're, uh, attracted to death or obsessed with it or whatever, it makes it sound like they're like a goth chick, you know, who is interested in herself dying. It's, I think what she really meant is, is that she is attracted to people that have passed, not death in general.

AP: Yeah. I think it's one of those that, you know, when you get a term stuck in your head and you've used it once, but now that's the only thing you can think of. That's kind of how I figured this kind of played in using the obsession or attraction. I think she's obsession that loss of that person and never being able to let, you know, not even just saying let go, but to be able to, to build up and, and move, you know, move on in a healthy manner.

I think that's where that is coming into play. So yeah, I'm right on the same page with you..

Amy: Yeah I think we both noted, I did glance at your notes. I didn't read everything thoroughly, but I did see that you also noted this when Mellissa's talking about, this is when they go into the basement, and she says, they both fairly uncomfortable down there.

And she says, it's when you go, are going up the stairs and it feel like you're being chased up the stairs and you've got to run and get to the top as quickly as possible. We have seen that in other shows, but I, that, that used to happen to me when I was little. And I mentioned it to, when I first saw it on The Dead Files, I mentioned it to Greg and he's like, “That happens to everybody. Everybody has that.” And I'm like, I don't know if everybody does, but I do think it's pretty common.

AP: Yeah, I think that plays into that factor, especially for those that are younger, when you've kind of got that, like, fear of the dark sort of thing, or you're hearing, you know, some of the, like, stories from people or the made-up camp stories, that kind of thing.

And now your heart races when the lights off and you're like, I got to get up the stairs or, you know, and those, I can remember vividly, it was my great grandparents house and smelled like smoke because he was, you know, like the yellow finger nicotine in between kind of And, you know, these were just some of my first memories because we were only there a few times and it was around the holidays, but we would go downstairs and play in the basement area.

But in the Midwest, we have a lot of finished basements and this was a partially finished basement, but it was, you know, well-lit and stuff. But if you were the last one down there, you're like, Shit, shit, shit, shit, shit, shit. Like, and then I picture, I can't remember what the stairs look like, but I, I'm sure it wasn't this, but I always picture the stairs that have the slats removed in the back or don't have the slats there in the back.

That was fucking freaking me out the most.

Amy: So like a little hand could come right out there in between. Yeah.

AP: Yeah. Like the, the Instagram realize shared with you guys yesterday. That scared me.

Amy: I'll post that in the, in the show notes, a link to that. That was pretty cool. I thought it was funny because I'm like, what's he doing in there?

AP: I know. Well, cause she was so calm about everything.

Amy: It wasn't really a jump scare to me, but I was like, yeah, anyway, I won't give away any more than that.

AP: Uh, yeah. I, and I just had in that basement that, yeah, Mellissa and Nathan both feel uncomfortable down there. That's where the, it sounds like the laundry is.

And then, you know, Mellissa also shared, hey, we've had friends over and they hear footsteps around here too. And then we moved to, to Amy being in the basement and just kind of saying “people from the trees do have to fuck with people because they have to follow orders”. Just so matter of fact and that the “cloaked man sends them in to torment the living cause he wants the house destroyed.”

Amy: Yeah. And that's where she saw somebody being having your leg pulled. And she talks more about that later and we'll see that in the sketch.

AP: Yep. And she says some don't have legs. And she sees them pulling on legs. The living are scared and they should be. These things are not good. I gotta love when she says, “Oh, these things are not good.”

And she's very exasperated when she says it.

Amy: Yeah. Yeah. You can always tell when Amy's a little like freaked out and she'll like look at Matt and be like, I don't like this or something like that, you know?

AP: She usually like pulls, pulls into herself a little bit.

Amy: Yup. Yup. And then next we're in Madison's room and now we're hearing about this.

She wakes up every night between three and three thirty.

AP: She waking around the same time as you.

Amy: I mean. That's right. I'm always awake. You know what? I did, I did actually sleep until five today. I couldn't believe it because Fozzie woke me up at two to go potty. So he didn’t have to wake me up again later.

So she sees that I just have to take dogs out at three o'clock in the morning. She sees a little girl under her bed or a little girl in her bed.

AP: Yeah. Wanting to play with her.

Yikes. And she says, I don't want to play with her mom.

AP: Yeah. And do we ever find out who this little girl is?

Amy: No. No. No. And then she says that there are guys in her ears.

AP: Yeah, and she hears a whoosh, whoosh, whoosh sound.

Amy: Yeah, whoosh, whoosh. Yeah. I wonder if her ears are ringing. And she just doesn't know it, but it seems awfully young for your ears to be going goofy. I get that. I'm old.

AP: Well, and, okay, so, there's one part of this that bothered me, like, the mom, Mellissa, was like, yeah, “I don't like being in here by myself, so I can't imagine how Madison is in here at night by herself,” and I'm like, is there not another option?

Is there nowhere else that she can sleep if she's this distraught? Every night.

Amy: Well, she did talk about how Madison sleeps with her sometimes. So I, or she mentioned a time when Madison was sleeping with her. So I meant, I suppose that's maybe an option or maybe she doesn't sleep in there much. I don't know.

AP: But yeah, I know we, and maybe this is one of those things that we've learned kind of going through. Cause we've heard like when we had Kayli on that, you know, her daughter was not sleeping in that room.

Amy: right, right. They were both sleeping on that tiny little mattress. I liked how Amy is talking about the dead people and she says they are “solid ass dead people and they present themselves.

AP: Yeah. Well, she first goes, she goes, no, no, no, no, no, no. She's shaking her head and she's like, “they are solid ass dead people. They present themselves. It's a thing they do to mediums.” So then that puts your brain right into, Oh, she said two mediums and one, one is very developed.. So, okay, it's Mellissa and Madison is what you're thinking.

Amy: Yeah, that's what I was thinking for sure. Cause she does say the kid is, if they're doing that, the kid is advanced.

AP: Yup. And I said, Amy looks both concerned and confused by this revelation. Like, she's just very like, how, how is this person so advanced for this young age?

Amy: Yeah. Yeah. Which we never really find out.

Amy starts asking about it in the reveal, but it kind of gets cut. So yeah. So Madison sees someone under the bed and mom has fallen…

AP:  in the master bedroom.

Amy: Sorry. Yeah. We are now in the master bedroom. Madison saw someone under the bed. Mom has felt someone sitting on the bed. Madison was in there sleeping with her one night and she said that she was talking about a man under the bed.

And. Then when Mellissa's like, no, look, the beds right here, there's only like two inches at most of space under the bed.

AP: Okay. Yeah. Because it's on two by fours basically. The bottom part of the frame is a two by four. So in my head, in my head, I'm like, why aren't you just putting that on the ground?

Because you can't get a vacuum under there. That is just a suck hole for socks and little things to get pulled under the bed because they shift.

Amy: Well, maybe, maybe the carpet is wonky or something and then she's using that to flatten everything out.

AP: Could be.

Amy: Who I don't know, but there was not room enough for a human or an animal to be under the bed except maybe a mouse, but I mean, I imagine that a ghosty person can fit under any bed.

AP: Well, yeah, because Mellissa says, look, you can't see it. And Madison goes, it's right. “He's right there, mom.” Yeah. So and then she had, she said she had Madison draw a picture. But she didn't keep the picture, which was unfortunate, but she said she drew a circle in a frowny face with red circles, which made me think that this was a person who died of some sort of disease.

Amy: That's what I was thinking too. “With red circles all over his face” made me think of like a pox or, or some kind of I don't even, I can't even think of the other kinds of diseases, but one wasn't, there's another disease that we've talked about because of The Dead Files before. And it was something where.

A lot of people had it. They were set.

AP: Was it yellow fever?

Amy:  yellow fever, maybe where they had lesions all over their faces.

AP: so I don't remember which ones have, I don't remember it either. Which ones. But yeah, there's both of those were very contagious diseases. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And I was like, okay.

Is this, is this like the guy that Amy mentioned that's missing part of his face? Is that what she was drawing with these circles? We don't really know for sure.

And then, yeah, Mellissa describes that somebody sitting on the bed and like, yep, I have felt that. I know exactly what she's talking about there, but I didn't have the, like, being scared or worried feeling just the like, who is this kind of thing.

Amy: It always feels to me like a, like a pet. It always feels like an animal. And then when I get up and look, everybody that's supposed to be in the, in the room is laying there already and as fast asleep, you know, or I'll feel, I'll feel somebody get up and leave, but I'll look and everybody's there. So,

AP: yep. I also know that with the master bedroom though, I don't think we had a lot from …There wasn't a lot of tie ins that Amy had, other than the debtor coming in from outside. They're the tree people. So many of them want to come in and Matt says, “what are they trying to do?” And Amy just says, “Hurt them.”

Just so matter of fact, and it was, it was the cutaway scene. So she was just like, hurt them. Great

Amy: And then it goes. The transition.

Yes. Now we're talking to Mike. This is Mellissa's husband and

AP: get your bingo cards ready.

Amy: We have skeptic husband, we have, which is on the bingo card he doesn't believe his wife or hadn't believed his wife, but now that the daughter is in the picture, she is telling him the same stuff and he believes her.

Because she's so small. Now I'm wondering if this means that he now believes the wife as well? Yeah. Or does he still think she's full of shit?

AP: I just, he said, I tend to, he said something along the lines, I tend to believe Madison because she's so small. And he said, okay, so without saying it, you just said you don't believe your wife.

Amy: Well, he took, I mean, so it was hard for me to believe. So he, and the experience that he's had. And they, they kind of dwell on this a bit more than I feel like they needed to. I feel like I could explain this away. Not that I know exactly what happened, but I can certainly come up with a thing.

But at any rate, he's obsessed with a shopping cart that was full of toys, full of toys, a shopping cart, little, you know, kids, little shopping cart, little Fisher price or whatever that is.

And it was sitting next to her bed and she woke up screaming. He came running in, the cart was in the middle of the room. and it was pointing a different way. And then Steve said, did you ask her what she saw or what was screened, why she was screaming? And he just said, “I assume she wanted it back by her bed again.”

Yeah. So he didn't ask or she didn't say, or maybe it was long enough ago that she wasn't really That verbal, I don't know, but so

AP: he did say when she was little and I'm like, dude, she's four.

Amy: She's four. She's still little.

AP: Is she, is she not little right now?

Amy: She's gonna hitch her, hitch a ride out and move out to California.

So yeah, he, so he put it back by the bed and he put it, he showed where he put it and he put it like where it looked like where it would be like right by her face side of right by her pillow. On the floor, but you know, and then he said a half hour later, he went back to bed, she woke up screaming again.

He came in and it was in the middle of the floor again.

AP: Yep. And it would, you know, to note it was on a rug, but not like a super plush rug. It was kind of like the, you know, if you push something across it, it's going to move on that kind of rug.

Amy: Yeah. So I'm going to put my skeptic Greg hat on, and what I thought is: She, it was, it was sitting next to her. She tussled around at night. She bumped it with her foot or something, that woke her up. And when she woke up, she could see it rolling into the middle of the room.

AP: Yep, I also want to say, we later find out that the house was built in the forties. So there is some settling and things that can happen.

So, especially since it, the way that he described it was that it rolled into the same kind of position and yes, it was angled a little bit, but again, it's on a, it's on rug. So it's not like it's going in a straight line. So is it potential that it just had just enough or maybe there was something underneath the rug so, you know, it, it didn't take long for it.

I mean, how many, there's so many things, I mean, I go to my sister's house and it's a great house, but when the cabinets were put in, there's a part where it's not level. If you put something on there that's round, it's going to roll towards you, you know, and a house 1940s has some wear, has some tear, has some shifting.

Amy: Yeah, my house was built in the forties and if you put something down in the kitchen, it'll go somewhere because it's, it's real wobbly under there because the floor is bad.

AP: Yeah, that, that one to me is one that's like, okay, that's weird, but I could probably figure out what's going on. And yeah, she may have, if he put it right next to her, she may have turned over and bumped it, woke herself up and it was just enough to, to move it.

Amy: Because the way he…

AP:. pivoted on one of the wheels, that's the way that he described that it turned Yeah. He was like, well, it just pivoted on one of the wheels. Yeah. Like we all grabbed that shopping cart at the store before. We're like, what the fuck? Why isn't this thing moving?

Amy: Exactly. Yeah. Now I don't, I'm not, I was thinking that exact thing, but now that I'm thinking about it again, I'm picturing that shopping cart, I don't know if the wheels move on a, on a sideways base, they might just be stuck forward.

they might not turn, but I mean, if the. I'm just going to turn where the kid is pushing it, you'd think it would have that.,

AP: Yeah but even still the like I used to play with Hot Wheels all the time. They never rode straight. Yeah, because one, one area will, you know, go a little bit faster inevitably, or it just hits a little bit of thing and it catches a lip and it just turns it.

So, yeah,

Amy: yeah. Either way it could happen. It could be ghosty.

AP:  Absolutely.

Amy: We do find out that there is poltergeist activity. Yeah. It could be ghosty, but I feel like they're throwing all of their eggs in one basket, so to speak. On that one.

AP: One shopping cart.

Amy: One shopping cart.

AP: Yeah, I feel like we spent a lot of time with Mike and didn't get a lot of information.

Amy: Right, right. But that did turn him around.

AP: Yes

Amy: The shopping cart incident.

AP: That was one of, yeah, what did he say? “It opened my eyes is what it did.” And then we do get some more information from him as we move away from the shopping cart and we go, Oh, well, yeah, Mellissa is also really uncomfortable in the attic.

And Steve's like, yeah, you have an attic. She didn't say anything about it, but yeah, it's, it's a typical, you know, that drop down from the ceiling in the hallway. Those always give you kind of a creepy vibe because you're expecting to see some doll sitting in the corner. Yeah. Or like,

Amy: I'm always, I used to have one of those in my old house, my house I grew up in.

And when you pulled it down, then the stairs come down too. And I, and this is partly my dad's fault. Hi dad. Because he used to make haunted houses for me up in the attic. And so when I would pull the thing down, like a skeleton would come down and swing in the doorway, you know, so, so that freaked me out too.

AP: That’ll get’cha

Amy: Those still freak me out. Yep.

AP: And, and, you know, I, What he talks about with anybody feeling uncomfortable, yeah, it's dark and creepy. It's not well lit. There's spider webs. There's cobwebs. There's

Amy: Steve was probably uncomfortable. It doesn't mean that there's anything haunted up there.

AP: But then we, we, this is where we find out that the house was built in the forties.

And prior to that, the land was owned by a local gangster in the twenties and forties through the forties named John Looney. Which I had, like, and cause you know that I don't watch with subtitles on, but I had to hear him say it a couple of times and it wasn't until somebody else said it. Cause I couldn't, like from Mike, I thought he kept saying like something like Louis or William.

I heard it a couple of different times and I was like, okay and then Steve does the classic. So if Amy told you you had to leave, yeah. Well, I said, Mike gave a classic, like, non answer. Well, we're hoping you guys would give us some answers.

Amy: We're hoping you guys would fix it for us.

AP: Yeah. There wasn't a dream home, but it was, it was, I mean, just like anybody.

Amy: You don't want to pick up everything and move, especially with kids and all their shit. I mean, kids have a lot of toys and a lot of clothes and shit like that. You don't want to pack all that up.

Amy is in the attic. Oh, one thing about the attic I wanted to mention when Mike is telling Steve that Mellissa doesn’t like it up there.

He's like, “I don't even think she's been up here once.” I'm like, well, then how would she know she's afraid of it?

AP: Yeah, I couldn't. Yeah, I thought he said maybe she'd been up there once along, you know, a while ago. But yeah, no, I think that's right.

Amy: But so when Amy's up there, she does say that there are, oh, do we have something before that? Yeah. Oh,

AP: it was just that, that poltergeist. Amy was in the little girl's room again and said she's hearing things like a little bit of a poltergeist. There's poltergeist shit in here.

Amy: Yeah, there's chairs moving or something.

Yep. And then she says “poltergeists are created unintentionally when someone with ability suppresses intense negative emotions. These powerful forces can interact with the physical world and in some cases harm living people.”

So just that she actually gave us a definition, which we've lost those definitions in the later seasons.

Amy: Yeah. Yeah, and maybe because she feels like, Oh, you've already seen that we say this 10 times, but yeah, they did. I noticed they did a lot of those, what they call confessionals in reality TV. They call it confessional when they're talking to the TV, the screen or the camera, I should say. And they did a lot of them in this one that Steve did some too.

But anyway, let's see.

AP: Back to the attic.

Amy: Back to the attic. With Amy. And she says the, a lot of the dead people like to come up there and hang out and they all work together..

AP: Yeah And died in various ways and places

Amy:. And then she says some swear word I couldn't make out that went, “beeeeep”. And then she goes, this is not good.

Oh, that one. She probably went, “fuuuuuck”. Yeah, she probably did. It was either that or “shiiiiiiiiit”.

Usually I can tell what she's saying, but they, they covered her mouth so I couldn't tell. So next we talked to little cutie patootie Nathan, seven years old, and he tells Steve about about a, there was something that was in He was in his bed and looking at the closet and he saw a gray shadow running across it.

Yeah. And then Steve goes, which closet? And then he points all creepy like, you know, when little kids point at something creepy, you just pointed creepy at it. I have a picture of it.

AP: Yep.

And he just says, it looked like a person and no, he didn't tell anybody about it.

Amy: Yeah. Steve asked him what it looked like.

And he goes, “it was kind of a person shadow”. And then he says, did you tell anybody? And he said, no, I haven't yet. And he said he just tried to not think of it and not have a nightmare. Mm hmm. And then he said, he talks about when he felt something pulling him down the stairs into the basement, it grabbed onto his shirt.

And then Steve says, are you scared to be at home? And quietly, he goes “Yes.”

AP: And then it was kind of one of those, like, when we learn some of the stuff in the reveal, it's like, okay, now that makes sense when you hear Nathan, who's a seven-year-old who feels like he's taking up the presence of an older person, old soul kind of feel. But one thing, one problem I had with this section.

And it was with Steve. Big surprise. Of course. In that one of those confessionals, he does the, “I've been lied to by seasoned sociopaths, and I can always see through their lies. So when I'm talking to a kid, I know when they're telling the truth, and this one is.”

I'm like, Is that really the only comparison we can make about a child telling the truth is that we're talking to sociopaths?

Amy: Yeah. That did strike me as odd too, oh, Steve.

AP: I'm like, I get that you're trying to get a point across, but seasoned sociopaths, like

Amy: yeah. Someone probably wrote that for him. He probably didn't put that on his own.

AP: Now all I'm thinking about is somebody being doused in seasoned salt.

Amy: He was very well seasoned, unlike some of those dishes on the new Top Chef. Have you started watching that yet?

AP: Did you watch it last week? I was going to ask. Yeah,

Amy: I did. Did you? I think the right person went home. Yes.

AP: Oh, I don't think I could have managed to season with that person.

Amy: He doesn't like pasta. Come on. Who doesn't like pasta? I didn't trust him from the beginning.

AP: He was from California. Not that Californians doesn't like pasta, but

Amy: anyway. Back to the task at hand. Okay. So now we're in, we're with Amy and let's see, where is she?

AP: She's, she's, I have stuff that's kind of related to Nathan at this point. Cause she sees what the ones that are coming in, they look more like shadows against the walls. She says there's two types of dead here, the ones presenting themselves to the mediums.

So basically, it feels like there's, she kind of says they, they like line up, like she walked in and they're all like, Hey, how's it going? You know, just help me. Yeah, they're waiting to be helped. And then and she said, there's the ones who are wanting the help and are presenting themselves. And then there's the ones that are crawling across the floors of the bedroom in the basement, which still sounded like some of the stuff that she said is that the ones that were crawling still wanted help, but they didn't have legs necessarily.

Amy: Right. And they were, those are the ones that were all in decomp, different stages and

AP: They were the ones coming from the trees.

Amy: Right So those were, do you think those are all Native American then? Or do you think, because I think she does say that he's been collecting them for some time.

AP: Yeah, I, I But I don't know that he would have been collecting Native American souls.

I feel like he would have been collecting others and, you know, because he screwed up with the land.

But then on the other side, I could see where he was collecting them to be like, I'm getting our land back. We can live here, but he's commanding them. So I don't know for my thought was more that he was, he was pissed off and just taking…but Amy did say that both sets of these have bad intentions at times, and that says, what will these things eventually do?

“Well, they can kill.” Great

Amy: Mm hmm.. She had a lot of good, like, one liners going to break. Yeah. One liners. Yeah. So, okay.

So now Steve is going into town and trying to find more about John Looney, who used to run a bloody empire right off the property. So he talks to Roger Ruthhart, who is a local author and he is, uh, he wrote a book about Looney and he says that he owned the property at one point.

We have some pictures of him. He came to Rock Island in the late 1800s.

He got married. They had two daughters and a son. At about 1903, his wife dies. After she left, he said, I'm like, I

AP: know that, that, I, I, that phrasing felt really weird.

Amy: I thought so too. So that made him spiral down into his life of crime, gambling, moonshine, prostitution, the whole nine.

AP: And then he controlled the town and people were afraid of him. Yes. “If there was something illegal, he was involved in it.”

Amy: Exactly. Which sounded a lot like my old buddy Kid Cann from my other podcast who was involved in everything. That he could get his hands in because it made him money. So then Steve says, yeah, was he a violent man?

Yes, he, there were a lot of people on the payroll who were paid hit men. And then Steve out of what seems to be nowhere says, do you know if he buried any bodies on the property? Well, in fact, he did.

AP: Yeah, it was undeveloped land at the time.

Amy: Yeah. It's like there's a big piece of land with nobody on it.

The opportunity existed, the guy says.

AP: I mean, but why would you bury bodies on your own land? That just sounds stupid.

Amy: It does sound stupid. Maybe he wasn't so smart. Usually these mobsters, especially when they get So high up in power, they used to be pretty smart,

AP: but I mean, other than we, again, we've have that people were afraid of him.

So nobody's going to question, but I mean, the 1920s, that's when we start seeing, you know, really start seeing the federal government starting to put tasks for task force type things together to try and. you know, stop the, the gangsters and mobsters. Not that it worked well for quite a while.

Amy: Well, no, because a lot of times the task force was full of, people who were just trying to get the drugs and stuff for themselves and sell it. That happened here in Minneapolis.

So yeah. So then let's see. Amy sees a family, a whole family, mother, daughter, and two or three kids and their father's kind of freaky, kind of creepy looking. Yep. And something about dirty dealings.

AP: No, she said something about dirty deeds. And then I put down cheap. And I said, I'm sorry, I couldn't help myself.

Amy: And then Matt says, what is he doing? She said, he's like burying bodies. And then Ruthgart, Ruthhart tells us a little bit more about how in 1922, the empire started to fall apart. There was a split in the organization and one side put up a a hit on Looney.

AP: His former lieutenants started their own gang. We were real dramatic.

Amy: Yeah. They didn't get him, but they killed his son. Yeah. And so the way that he explains it, “they pulled up in front of this hotel.

Looney was going to get in, going in to get some papers and these other guys pull up and they jump out and Fire and Looney runs for the hotel. He goes up to the second floor and starts firing back, but the son gets shot down on the sidewalk before he ever got to the door and eventually dies later at the hospital”.

And then we see Amy who is, has a nasty headache and she's talking about, she hears someone yelling about a gunshot and she feels like there's a hole in her head.

And then she does another fuck or shit or whatever, a long beep.

AP: Yep. And what I kind of envisioned during this time with the firing on Looney and his son is a Tommy gun because Tommy guns were recently invented towards the end of world war one. And so, and if anybody is picturing that Scarface any of the like Bonnie and Clyde type though, they usually mostly did shotgun, but those repeating, it had a big cylinder and it had a repeating.

So, that's what I envision with the sun getting shot and that may be completely wrong.

Amy: Well, I mean, that, that was the, that was the weapon that those guys used for every, all of their jobs. And so it makes sense that

AP: pistols for small pistols for up close work.

Amy: Yep. So. After his son was murdered, things fell apart.

The city leader started shutting down things and then his whole house of cards fell in. Feds when after him, they finally got him on a murder charge. He killed a local bar owner named Bill Gable who refused to pay him protection money. He was found guilty, sentenced up to 14 years, but the only, he only served eight of it.

Yep. When he came out of prison, he went to live with his daughter. and died of a lung condition when he was 75 in 1942.

AP: 1942. Yes. Lung condition, lung cancer. I mean, he probably was not one to not smoke.

Amy: Yeah. Yeah. Everybody's dead back then.

AP: Mm hmm. Yeah, and we see Amy talking, like you said, about the nasty headache, guy in black, early 70s, fairly recently dead, sees bodies all over the place, throwing in them, throwing them in the ground.

No one likes him and he was evil.

Amy: Now Steve's at the library digging through the archives. That's also on the bingo card. He learns about a man named Sam Bowles, who lived on the property in the 1800s with his wife, Eliza. We don't have to go through all this because I feel like we've been at this for a while, but she claimed her husband beat her and put it in the paper.

And then a month later, she died of a stroke.

AP: A week later.

Amy: Was it a week?

AP: A week later. Oh, I thought it was a month. Okay. Yeah. It was only a week later. And I, first off, Steve, Steve goes, seems like that's a taboo subject back then to talk about him. Like, just back then? Yeah.

Amy: I don't think any woman who is abused is going to put a notice in the paper about it.

AP: Yeah. And then, um, then Steve asks. Well, was she sick or something? Like, um, that's not usually how strokes or aneurysms work.

Amy: Yeah. Those usually creep right up on you.

AP: Mm hmm. If it was a stroke or aneurysm, however, if there was also domestic violence, it could have been a head injury.

Amy: It absolutely could have, or yeah, it could have been something resulting from a head injury.

AP: Correct.

Amy: Yeah, for sure. And I read the, the little death notice in the paper that he was looking at, and it does say that she had gone out to dinner, they call it dinner, at noon. She had a hearty dinner at noon in the company of her son in law, John K. So they had a daughter. Her name was Talitha. And this picture that they show is her and her husband, I think.

I don't remember if they said that or if I just assumed that.

AP: No, I think the picture is her and her dad.

Amy: Oh, oh, okay.

AP: He's sitting in the chair.

Amy: Okay. Okay.

AP: That's, that's what I gathered is that was her.

Amy: I bet you're right. The dad. Samuel. Okay. All right. So this guy was a prominent man in the community.

He'd built a church and the cemetery.

AP: And a school.

Amy: And a school. And when he died his daughter inherited the estate and sold it off piece by piece and sold the last piece to John Looney, the mobster. and I did look this up a little bit. Eliza was his second wife. His first wife was Meir, Mirgaret Porter, and she died in 1854, and he married Eliza in 1860.

AP: How, how was it

spelled?

Amy: M-I-R-G-A-R-E-T.

AP: Interesting.

Amy:  Like Margaret, but with an I instead of an.

AP: Yeah. Interesting.

Amy: So, I don't, I noted that I don't think that this family really showed up too much in Amy's stuff except she did say she met a prissy uppity woman.

AP: With a lace dress and a high collar. Right.

Amy: And that picture of Talitha looks like that.

AP: Yeah. And that parents may have died young.

Amy: Yeah. We don't know anything about her parents.

AP: No, no, her mom died and her dad died in 1893. She was born in 1861.

Amy: Oh yeah, yeah, Talitha. No, I was thinking of Eliza. I was thinking it was Eliza, but oh yeah,

AP: It could be Eliza too. Who knows?

Amy: Who knows? They really didn't say.

AP: But she is disgusted by the people she's surrounded by and Amy also said that she's advanced.

Amy: Yes. She said she's very advanced. And I, I thought she was talking about the living person in the home. And I'm like, wait a minute. I thought this was the little boy.

AP: I think she was talking about, cause there was no other connection that came back to the child at that time. It's not because what it sounded like is she described what this woman looked like and then said, she's very disgusted by the people she's surrounded with, but she's very advanced. Like she can, do things or go places or whatever.

That's, that's how I gathered it.

Amy: I think you're right. I think you're right. I, for some reason, I had it in my head that she was talking about the client.

AP: Oh, it came across that way because it was the same way that she'd been talking about it.

Amy: Yeah. Okay. So now we're getting into Steve discovering about the Native Americans and the fight over the land.

He speaks to Beth Carvey, who's a local curator. And let's see these were in. The last tribe of Indians to inhabit the area, he said Indians, were the Sauk Nation, and they were here for about, uh,

I'm reading the transcript. I don't know why it says that. They were here in about, I guess, 1735, and there was about 5,000 people, and they lost their land to the American government in 1804, but only about two thirds of the tribe was willing to go, and about a third of the tribe That was led by the warrior Black Hawk refused to leave the land of their ancestors.

AP: He said, “I'll die before I leave.”

Amy: And then one of their spokesmen was a man named Keokuk and he was friendly to the Americans, which did not work well for these people. He convinced them to leave, and they went to Iowa and then they were told they could have this land, but it was taken away from them. 10 years, 10 years later, everything was gone. Interestingly,

AP: 1804 is before the Louisiana Purchase too, so before all of that, you know, France gave up a very, very significant piece of land for very little money. Mm. But yeah, they had Black Hawk felt disdain towards Keokuk, and then the rest felt him to be a coward or a traitor, even still through today, he is viewed in that manner.

 They were given, yeah, given the land for forever, and ten years later they would lose it all.

Amy: It's not forever. Mm hmm. And this is where Amy is seeing the leader guy. She calls him the leader guy, which is why I kept saying, that's, that's not Keokuk. He was the spokesman. Mm hmm. But I gotta, we're not worried about semantics because …

AP: I think they called him a spokesman, but obviously if he convinced everyone to leave, he had to have been in a leader position.

Amy: He was high up there. Yeah.

AP: But they, the way that they chose to state it was a little unfair maybe.

Amy: It's kind of odd, yeah. Mm hmm. So she says, there are still territories here. The man's, the spirit speaking to her. There are still territories here and we still watch over them. But he does admit when he was alive he screwed up, he wasn't doing his job, and he says that everyone has come since has just fucked everything up and destroyed it.

And he feels justified wreaking havoc on people. And when Matt asks, what does he do? He says, well, he anything that needs to be done. But he sends his people to do it. Yes. The people in the trees.

AP: The people in the trees... And again, we have no, he into the house. Yeah. And we have no idea who the people in the trees are, if they are of his, you know, nation. Or if they are just others who have died in the area that he's collected.

I don't know, that's, that's how I feel it might be just because I feel weird for him to collect the souls of especially, you know, there's so many different ways that people think about how spirit crosses and what the spirit does and yeah.

Amy: Yeah. It's, it does seem odd that a native would do that. Anyway. So now we're at the reveal. “Now that Amy and I have completed our investigations”.

AP: Yeah. We skipped the sketch. Oh, that's right. Okay. Like they skipped, they went straight to the reveal.

Amy: I was like, wait a minute. It's not in my notes, but I'm using the transcript.

Okay. Yeah. Okay. They do flash back to it though. Yeah. That's how they did it. They didn't have a sketch sequence. They just flash back to it.

Okay. So Steve explains what's going on. Here's these guys, blah, blah, blah. These are their names. And then uh, Amy, the first thing that she says in a confessional before she talks to them is “I immediately get the sense that someone here is contributing to what's happening in this house, but I can also tell they're not emotionally ready to hear it yet.

AP: Yep. And I was like, Mellissa.

Amy: Yeah. And then she talks about all the different entities that she saw and she starts with the cloaked man or no, the the, uh, the man all dressed in black and that's Looney and Steve mentions Looney. They talk about him and is there anything we need to extra? We didn't learn anything new in the reveal, right?

AP: No, I think the only, the only thing that was, is like Steve says like, and he would bury, and Amy says, Oh, burying bodies on the property. Like, she's like, Mm, mm hmm. Great. Mm hmm. Got it. Great. This is property perfect for burying bodies.

Amy: Yep. And then she saw that people under the trees and their leader was a man who came up, walked up, and he was the one wearing the dark cloak.

It was a very long time ago, in the 1700s. His job was to be in charge of the large territory. So we know this is Keokuk. And Steve connects that, let's see.

AP: She says he does it psychotically too well for watching over the territory now and the tribe feels that he sold them all out.

Amy: Uh, let's see.

AP: We learned the person under the bed is likely John Looney. Yeah. Which, yeah. Creepy.

Amy: Yeah. Yikes. What would he be doing under there? I don't like that.

AP: Freaking people out, I guess.

Amy: Yeah, she said, Steve asked if it's someone else, and she goes, no, it's him, and points to Looney's picture. And then Mellissa says, “I've got goosebumps.”

She talks about the basement and the dead people that were sent to destroy the house. They're all naked in different levels of decomposition. Two of them want help. Then she talks about the seeing, um, the person doing the laundry. And this is when we see the sketch, which is Mellissa doing laundry and a woman laying on the ground, kind of crawling toward her sort of, and grabbing onto her pant leg.

AP: I thought their reactions were very indicative because Mike goes, “Oh, that's scary.” And Mellissa says, “it's sad. It's like she's reaching out to me for help.” And then Amy goes, “well, I did get that a female is a medium and they want, yeah, they do want help, but there is a fine line between obsession and help.”

And they started talking about the unhealthy obsession and then she says that, you know, these. Obsessions and people can inadvertently harm you.

Amy: And then we, Mellissa does confess that she's had, she's had abilities her whole life and has always assumed that she has abilities, but she just hasn't really developed them, I guess.

AP: Yeah, she says she's never been scared of them until her daughter started having bad experiences.

Amy: And then Amy talks about the child who is extremely open and very well developed, which is interesting. And she said when she went into the bedroom, the dad lined up and greeted her, like an introduction, and she was shocked. And then Steve goes, was this Nathan's room? And she's like, I don't know, it had bunk beds in it.

And he said, yep, that's Nathan's room.

AP: Yep, and she said, uh, that those being lined up and greeted, it's usually for something very advanced. And So she said Nathan's very advanced and that Madison also has some abilities. Which kind of, you know, explains, again, like I said earlier, the, Nathan just seemed like cool, calm, collected with who he's being talked to about stuff, so.

Amy: Maybe he'll be somebody who can really control it and help people with it. I mean, maybe, maybe that's his calling.

AP: Well, and Amy gets to what I think she thinks is the root of it, and she said, “has something traumatic happened to him?” So then they tell the story of what we said earlier of, of Noah, Nathan was only two, but they knew halfway through the pregnancy that something was wrong and life would not be viable outside the womb.

And Mellissa acknowledged that she didn't accept that And Amy's kind of like, Oh, knowing all of this, it all is making sense now. Knowing that story, everything is making sense to her.

Amy: Yeah. And, uh, let's see, she says that. Wait a minute, she says the adult medium won't let go specifically to the family and friends.

And this is something that's being held inside and is coming out in this manner, the poltergeist activity. So that's Mellissa.

AP: Anger is not being properly released. And Mellissa said, I've had other grieved properly for Noah.

Amy: Yeah.

AP: And I said, This is not surprising, especially if she struggled right away, uh, and Madison, you know, being only a year younger than it was, you know, potentially just getting, you know, going into that next part, if I just compartmentalize and I just shift that away, he's never really, you know, then I don't have to acknowledge those feelings and that, that hurt.

Yeah. Which a lot of people do. We've, I'm sure most of us have been there in some form or fashion for something.

Amy: Right Which is why. Amy suggests grief counseling and says this will help her to let go of the dead and will help her get rid of the poltergeist.

And then she gives some exercises to Nathan that he should do every night before he goes to bed that, um, he states that he only wants the good dead and negative energy is not welcome.

AP: And he wants his guides to stand by him and guide him.

Amy: Yeah. And then Steve says, well, that get that Looney guy out of here? And she said, yes. And then the last thing they can do is go to the tribe that Keokuk is from and ask them to do a ceremony in the backyard to release him and the people that he has imprisoned.

Yes. And they are, they seem down. They seem like they're gonna, they're gonna do this. They say they're gonna definitely follow all the advice. And then the wrap up is Mellissa has been attending grief counseling while Nathan speaks nightly with the dead. Mm hmm.

AP: “Activity is subsiding as they search for a Native American who can help them.”

Amy: Oh, I didn't even see that part. Mm hmm. It was the second part. Went right to the Next episode.

AP: Mm mm. There was a second. The second part is yep, that it's subsided and they're just trying to search at that point in time for someone who can help perform that ceremony and release Keokuk. All right.

Amy: Cool. Yeah.

AP: It's a good episode.

Amy: It was. It was heavy.

AP: Thank you, Lily, for suggesting it. It was heavy, but it's also, you know, it's helpful to talk about these sorts of things too. So if somebody's out there and feeling like they can't, you know, look into that grief counseling or anything that you may need, there's, you're not the only one who's ever been through it.

Amy: Right. Right. There's another, there's the other side of it, you know, coming out the other side. Okay.

So thanks for joining us, everybody. AP is going to tell us what we're doing next week. We're very excited about that.

AP: Yes. Well, our next few weeks, we've got some interviews lined up, like several in the coming weeks here.

So next week, we are super excited to say that History Goes Bump. Diane and Kelly will be joining us on our podcast. They hosted us a few weeks ago, as you may recall. And it was such a blast that we asked, Hey, would you be willing to come and chat with us and share your stories? So we can't wait to chat with them again and see what fun stories they're willing to share.

If you haven't had a chance to check them out, they have like 10 years of episodes to choose from. So there's something for everybody. There's a little bit of, little bit of history. If you're wanting to go somewhere, maybe you're looking for some excitement. Do a, do a little search and see what you can find.

Amy: Yeah, they have a lot of great episodes and like I mentioned before, I was listening to them way back, maybe not 10 years ago, but. maybe eight or nine years ago when I started listening to podcasts. And so I, I have, I, I've been listening to that for a long time and they're really fun and there's a good dose of history.

There's a lot of fun stuff. And so listen to their episodes. Then you'll, you'll hear us chatting with them next week. And then we have, after that we have, we're going to be talking to clients from, I forgot. I didn't remember.

AP: It was one of our spring break episodes. Yes, it was. It was the one in Florida.

Amy: Yep. It was the one in the Everglades. Yep. And so the mom, Michelle, and the daughter, Christa, will be on that following week. And then after that.

AP: And Christa was the one that had childhood leukemia. Yes. Yes. That's how you might remember that episode.

Amy: Yes. And she, she had abilities, right? They both did, I think.

Yeah. So that'll be fun to talk to them.

So I won't give away what we're doing the next two weeks after that. It's pretty exciting though. So stay tuned and we will see you guys next week. Yep.

AP: Bye. Bye.